60fps with 120hz | Tom's Hardware Forum

Anything above 60 fps on a 60hz display (and anything above 120 fps on 120hz display) will cause uneven frame latency, sometimes being 16.7 ms ( ... Menu Menu Forums Login Register Sidebar Blog Categories Category1 Category2 Category3 Category4 Categories Category1 Category2 Category3 Category4 SupportUI.X Donate Contactus MainLinks Forums articles Interviews Menu Featured Home Forums Newposts Trending Searchforums What'snew Newposts Newprofileposts Latestactivity Members Currentvisitors Newprofileposts Searchprofileposts Billboard Trophies CatchtheTom'sHardwareShowonThursday,January13at3PMEastern! 60fpswith120hz Threadstarter rorywilson Startdate Jun9,2014 Sidebar Forums Hardware Displays Previous Next Sortbyvotes R rorywilson Reputable Jun9,2014 3 0 4,510 0 IfIbuyamonitorwith120hzbutonlyget60fps,graphicallywillitbebetterthanhavingamonitorwith60hzandgetting60fps? asIamconfused   0 Leonell12 Honorable Apr8,2013 629 0 11,360 133 rorywilson: Iusexboxonebytheway.sohavinga120hrzmonitorat60fpsisnotgoodandwouldnotrunsmootherthana60hrzmonitorwith60fps.sothe60hrzmonitoristhebestsolution? yep....iftheXboxpumpsout60frameseverysecond,gameplaywillbesmootherona60Hzdisplayratherthana120Hz...thesameanalogyapplies   0 Leonell12 Honorable Apr8,2013 629 0 11,360 133 rorywilson: IfIbuyamonitorwith120hzbutonlyget60fps,graphicallywillitbebetterthanhavingamonitorwith60hzandgetting60fps? asIamconfused nope....youhavethatcompletelywrong.....60Hzona60Hzdisplaywouldlookbetter(smoother)than60Hzona120Hzdisplay.....becauseyouseeyougpuwillbepumpingout60frameseverysecondwhileyourmonitordisplays120frameseverysecond,whathappens?.....yourmonitordisplayssomeframesfortoolong.....yourmonitorisreadybutyourgpuisntsothesameframegetsdisplayeduntilthegpuisready....thiscausesstuttering...sometimestinyothertimesquitesevere   0 R rorywilson Reputable Jun9,2014 3 0 4,510 0 Iusexboxonebytheway.sohavinga120hrzmonitorat60fpsisnotgoodandwouldnotrunsmootherthana60hrzmonitorwith60fps.sothe60hrzmonitoristhebestsolution?   0 Leonell12 Honorable Apr8,2013 629 0 11,360 133 rorywilson: Iusexboxonebytheway.sohavinga120hrzmonitorat60fpsisnotgoodandwouldnotrunsmootherthana60hrzmonitorwith60fps.sothe60hrzmonitoristhebestsolution? yep....iftheXboxpumpsout60frameseverysecond,gameplaywillbesmootherona60Hzdisplayratherthana120Hz...thesameanalogyapplies   0 R rorywilson Reputable Jun9,2014 3 0 4,510 0 thankyou   0 S swifty_morgan Illustrious Feb10,2006 13,567 1 42,960 605 thissoundsnutstome.   0 forestman11 Reputable Apr18,2014 47 0 4,540 1 Leonell12: rorywilson: Iusexboxonebytheway.sohavinga120hrzmonitorat60fpsisnotgoodandwouldnotrunsmootherthana60hrzmonitorwith60fps.sothe60hrzmonitoristhebestsolution? yep....iftheXboxpumpsout60frameseverysecond,gameplaywillbesmootherona60Hzdisplayratherthana120Hz...thesameanalogyapplies However,theXboxOneonlyplaysgamesat24or30FPSasallconsolessoit'sgoingtolookevenworse.   0 Leonell12 Honorable Apr8,2013 629 0 11,360 133 swifty_morgan: thissoundsnutstome. Howdoesthisexactlysoundnuts?...Ifi'mgivingthewrongadvicetotheOPthenpleasesaysoandwhy...   0 S swifty_morgan Illustrious Feb10,2006 13,567 1 42,960 605 soundsnuts.whatistheretoexplain?Idon'tseewherea120hzmonitorwouldhamperanything.   0 Leonell12 Honorable Apr8,2013 629 0 11,360 133 swifty_morgan: soundsnuts.whatistheretoexplain?Idon'tseewherea120hzmonitorwouldhamperanything. ijustexplainedtheanalogybehindit.....yourgpupushesout60frameseversecondbuta120hzdisplays120frameseverysecond....thatmeanstosyncwiththe60fpsfromthevideocard,themonitorwouldhavetodo0.5fpseverysecondwhichunfortunatelyisnotpossible,soit'lldisplayoneframeandthenwaitforthevideocardtopushoutanotheronesoitcandisplaythat....createsstutter...thisisexactlytheproblemG-syncsolves...whenfpsgoesbelow60ona60hzscreenoritgoesbelow120ona120hzscreen....nowyoucouldsaythat120hzmonitorwith60fpsvideocard,wouldntthemonitorbeassmoothasanative60hzone?....theanswerisno,notreally,therewillbetimeswhenthemonitorwouldfunctionperfectlyasanative60hzone,butothertimeswhenthefpsfromthegpufluctuateseventhetiniestbit,thewhole'displayoneframeandthenwaitforthevideocardtopushoutanother'thingfallsapart...thescreenstutters...plus,yonearthwouldyouneeda120hzanyways?...apartfromwatching3DontheXbox(tomycurrentknowledge)doesnotsupport3Drightnowanyways,theymaypatchit   0 B bystander Champion Dec9,2009 15,145 2 57,965 1,014 I'mwithswiftyhere.Youguysarenuts.Thereisnostutterifyouaremaintaining60FPSona120hzmonitorwithv-syncon.Withv-syncoff,thereisabsolutelynoquestion,the120hzmonitorwilldobetter,soIhavetoassumeweareassumingv-sync,sinceyoumentionedstuttering. So,ifyouarelockedat60FPSona120hzmonitor,theresultiseveryframewilloccupythelengthof2refreshes,resultinginthesameresultasa60hzmonitor.IfyourFPSarebelow60FPS,thentherecouldbestuttering,butitwouldbelessonthe120hzmonitor,becauseeachrefreshmisseddoesnotadd16.7mstotheframe,andinsteadadds8.3mstothedelay,reducingthestuttering.Theonlytimeyoumaygainalittlestutteringisifyouhavev-synconandabove60FPSandbelow120FPS,butyoualsogainFPSformoreresponse,thishasalittlebonusandalittledisadvantagetoo. Inshort: Withv-syncand60FPS,theyarethesame Withv-syncandlessthan60FPS,120hzisbetter. Withv-syncandover60FPS,120hzcanbebetter,butcanbeworseinways.ThehighertheFPS,themoreitisbetter. Withoutv-sync,120hzisalwaysbetter.   0 forestman11 Reputable Apr18,2014 47 0 4,540 1 bystander: I'mwithswiftyhere.Youguysarenuts.Thereisnostutterifyouaremaintaining60FPSona120hzmonitorwithv-syncon.Withv-syncoff,thereisabsolutelynoquestion,the120hzmonitorwilldobetter,soIhavetoassumeweareassumingv-sync,sinceyoumentionedstuttering. So,ifyouarelockedat60FPSona120hzmonitor,theresultiseveryframewilloccupythelengthof2refreshes,resultinginthesameresultasa60hzmonitor.IfyourFPSarebelow60FPS,thentherecouldbestuttering,butitwouldbelessonthe120hzmonitor,becauseeachrefreshmisseddoesnotadd16.7mstotheframe,andinsteadadds8.3mstothedelay,reducingthestuttering.Theonlytimeyoumaygainalittlestutteringisifyouhavev-synconandabove60FPSandbelow120FPS,butyoualsogainFPSformoreresponse,thishasalittlebonusandalittledisadvantagetoo. Inshort: Withv-syncand60FPS,theyarethesame Withv-syncandlessthan60FPS,120hzisbetter. Withv-syncandover60FPS,120hzcanbebetter,butcanbeworseinways.ThehighertheFPS,themoreitisbetter. Withoutv-sync,120hzisalwaysbetter. I'mgonnahavetodisagreewithyouonthat.IfthemonitorisrefreshingfasterthantheGPUcanputoutframesonagame,themonitorisgoingtohaveduplicateframestofillthosespacesin.Soeffectively,Iwouldthinkyouwouldonlybegetting30FPSeffectivelybecause120/60=2and60/2=30althoughitprobablyisnotascutanddryasthisthisisjustaguess.IfhewasonPCthiswouldn'tbeanissuebecausehecouldjustturntherefreshratedown.Sincehe'sonanXboxOnethatcanonlyrun30FPSanyway,it'sprobablygonnalookevenworse.OneofthevastreasonsIdon'tconsolegameandonlyplayPC.   0 B bystander Champion Dec9,2009 15,145 2 57,965 1,014 forestman11: I'mgonnahavetodisagreewithyouonthat.IfthemonitorisrefreshingfasterthantheGPUcanputoutframesonagame,themonitorisgoingtohaveduplicateframestofillthosespacesin.Soeffectively,Iwouldthinkyouwouldonlybegetting30FPSeffectivelybecause120/60=2and60/2=30althoughitprobablyisnotascutanddryasthisthisisjustaguess.IfhewasonPCthiswouldn'tbeanissuebecausehecouldjustturntherefreshratedown.Sincehe'sonanXboxOnethatcanonlyrun30FPSanyway,it'sprobablygonnalookevenworse.OneofthevastreasonsIdon'tconsolegameandonlyplayPC. Yes,everyframewillbeduplicated,butsinceLCD/LED'sdonotflicker,thereisnoeffectivedifferencebetween60FPSon60hzor120hz. Onthe60hzscreen,everyrefreshputsoutanewframe. Onthe120hzscreen,everyotherrefreshputsoutanewframe. Onbothsystems,anewframeisseenevery16.7ms.SinceLCD'saresolidstate,thereisnovisibledifference.   0 Leonell12 Honorable Apr8,2013 629 0 11,360 133 Iapologizeformaybeusingthewrongterms,whatihadmeantby'stuttering'wasnotthe'breaking'infpsasyoumaysaythatvsyncprevents.Whatihadmeantbystutteringwasframelatency.Anythingabove60fpsona60hzdisplay(andanythingabove120fpson120hzdisplay)willcauseunevenframelatency,sometimesbeing16.7ms(asbystandermentioned)andsometimesashighas30orsoms,thiswillcausea'hesitation'feelingwheregameplaywontfeelassmoothasitshould.ThisistheproblemG-sync(andadaptivev-syncandlatelyamd'sfree-syncidea)alsosolves,bysyncingthegpuanddisplay,nosuchrandomframelatenciesoccur.http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2013/12/23/nvidia-g-sync-review/2...V-syncisforasimilarpurposehoweversinceitcapsframestothemonitorsrefreshrate,whathappenswhenthegpucantdeliver60or120fps?......   0 B bystander Champion Dec9,2009 15,145 2 57,965 1,014 Leonell12: Iapologizeformaybeusingthewrongterms,whatihadmeantby'stuttering'wasnotthe'breaking'infpsasyoumaysaythatvsyncprevents.Whatihadmeantbystutteringwasframelatency.Anythingabove60fpsona60hzdisplay(andanythingabove120fpson120hzdisplay)willcauseunevenframelatency,sometimesbeing16.7ms(asbystandermentioned)andsometimesashighas30orsoms,thiswillcausea'hesitation'feelingwheregameplaywontfeelassmoothasitshould.ThisistheproblemG-sync(andadaptivev-syncandlatelyamd'sfree-syncidea)alsosolves,bysyncingthegpuanddisplay,nosuchrandomframelatenciesoccur.http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2013/12/23/nvidia-g-sync-review/2...V-syncisforasimilarpurposehoweversinceitcapsframestothemonitorsrefreshrate,whathappenswhenthegpucantdeliver60or120fps?...... Youseemtobeconfusing2differentphenomena,orjustdescribingitpoorly. Therearetwodifferentthingsyouaretalkingabouthere,andthewayyoudescribedit,wouldsuggestthatthe60hzmonitorwouldbefarworse. Let'sbreakthisdown. 60FPSona60hzmonitorwithv-syncwillnotcauseunevenframedelivery.HoweveritwillcauseadditionallatencyduetohowDirectXforceseveryframetobedisplayed.You'llendupwith16.7msoflatencythatshouldnotbethere,becauseitendsuptreatingrenderedframesasalookaheadsystem. 60FPSona120hzmonitorwithv-syncwillnothavethatlookaheadframebuffer,ifachievedwithaFPSlimiter.IfyoujustlettheFPSlandrandomly,soyouarenotatasolid60FPS,thenthisistheonlytimetheremaybesomeframetimedeliveryissues,whichmaystutterabit.Thiscanbecontrolledwithadaptivev-sync(halfrefresh)oraFPSlimiter. Withoutv-sync,the120hzmonitorwillbesuperiorineveryway.Thereisnolatencyaddedtotheframesineithercase.Idonotknowwhereyougotthatidea. Witha60hzmonitor,everyframewillhaveatear.Partoftheframewillshowinstantly,andpartofitwillwaituntilthenextrefresh.Itwilllikelymoveabit,upanddownthescreen,wherethatbreakis,astheyneversyncup.Perhapsthatisthepartyouareconfusedabout.Thereisnosyncingofframesandrefreshes,eveniftheFPSandhzmatch,unlessyouusev-syncorg-sync. Witha120hzmonitor,everyframewillhaveatear,withpartofitshowingupinstantly,andthe2ndhalfwaitingforthenextrefresh,butinsteadofwaiting16.7mstoshowthe2ndpart,itwaitsonly8.3ms.Thenanotherrefreshhappens,thatdoesnothappenwiththe60hzmonitor,whichwillshowbothpartsoftheimageatthesametime,withoutatear,followedbyanotherframewithatear.Theresultisthetearlastshalfaslong,andthetimeittakesthewholeimagetoshowuptakeshalfaslong.Mostpeopleclaimtonotseetearingasaresultofthespeed,butIdo,justnotaseasily.   0 Leonell12 Honorable Apr8,2013 629 0 11,360 133 bystander: Leonell12: Iapologizeformaybeusingthewrongterms,whatihadmeantby'stuttering'wasnotthe'breaking'infpsasyoumaysaythatvsyncprevents.Whatihadmeantbystutteringwasframelatency.Anythingabove60fpsona60hzdisplay(andanythingabove120fpson120hzdisplay)willcauseunevenframelatency,sometimesbeing16.7ms(asbystandermentioned)andsometimesashighas30orsoms,thiswillcausea'hesitation'feelingwheregameplaywontfeelassmoothasitshould.ThisistheproblemG-sync(andadaptivev-syncandlatelyamd'sfree-syncidea)alsosolves,bysyncingthegpuanddisplay,nosuchrandomframelatenciesoccur.http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2013/12/23/nvidia-g-sync-review/2...V-syncisforasimilarpurposehoweversinceitcapsframestothemonitorsrefreshrate,whathappenswhenthegpucantdeliver60or120fps?...... Youseemtobeconfusing2differentphenomena,orjustdescribingitpoorly. Therearetwodifferentthingsyouaretalkingabouthere,andthewayyoudescribedit,wouldsuggestthatthe60hzmonitorwouldbefarworse. Let'sbreakthisdown. 60FPSona60hzmonitorwithv-syncwillnotcauseunevenframedelivery.HoweveritwillcauseadditionallatencyduetohowDirectXforceseveryframetobedisplayed.You'llendupwith16.7msoflatencythatshouldnotbethere,becauseitendsuptreatingrenderedframesasalookaheadsystem. 60FPSona120hzmonitorwithv-syncwillnothavethatlookaheadframebuffer,ifachievedwithaFPSlimiter.IfyoujustlettheFPSlandrandomly,soyouarenotatasolid60FPS,thenthisistheonlytimetheremaybesomeframetimedeliveryissues,whichmaystutterabit.Thiscanbecontrolledwithadaptivev-sync(halfrefresh)oraFPSlimiter. Withoutv-sync,the120hzmonitorwillbesuperiorineveryway.Thereisnolatencyaddedtotheframesineithercase.Idonotknowwhereyougotthatidea. Witha60hzmonitor,everyframewillhaveatear.Partoftheframewillshowinstantly,andpartofitwillwaituntilthenextrefresh.Itwilllikelymoveabit,upanddownthescreen,wherethatbreakis,astheyneversyncup.Perhapsthatisthepartyouareconfusedabout.Thereisnosyncingofframesandrefreshes,eveniftheFPSandhzmatch,unlessyouusev-syncorg-sync. Witha120hzmonitor,everyframewillhaveatear,withpartofitshowingupinstantly,andthe2ndhalfwaitingforthenextrefresh,butinsteadofwaiting16.7mstoshowthe2ndpart,itwaitsonly8.3ms.Thenanotherrefreshhappens,thatdoesnothappenwiththe60hzmonitor,whichwillshowbothpartsoftheimageatthesametime,withoutatear,followedbyanotherframewithatear.Theresultisthetearlastshalfaslong,andthetimeittakesthewholeimagetoshowuptakeshalfaslong.Mostpeopleclaimtonotseetearingasaresultofthespeed,butIdo,justnotaseasily. everythingi'vetalkedaboutuntilnow,mostofithascomefromthishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdSQl64J0I8...imight'vemisunderstoodit.doesstutterthenonlyoccurifv-syncisturnedon?...asframesdipbelowthemonitor'srefreshrate?....   0 S swifty_morgan Illustrious Feb10,2006 13,567 1 42,960 605 iknewthiswasagsyncthing...........funnyhownewproblemsthatweren'treadilyapparentshowupwhenanewpieceofhardwareshowsup.howlameitisthatthesoftwaredeveloperscan't"fix"theircompany'sgraphicscardsfaults...........soundslikeMicrosoft..........theysuckatfixinganythingbutboytheysurecancrankoutthosenewoperatingsystems................yeah-boyyyyyyyyyyy.   0 B bystander Champion Dec9,2009 15,145 2 57,965 1,014 Leonell12: everythingi'vetalkedaboutuntilnow,mostofithascomefromthishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdSQl64J0I8...imight'vemisunderstoodit.doesstutterthenonlyoccurifv-syncisturnedon?...asframesdipbelowthemonitor'srefreshrate?.... Youaretalkingaboutdifferenttechnology.Hisexplanationsaboutthe"stutter"appliestoallmonitorswithoutg-syncthatarenotusingv-sync.Thatincludes60FPSona60hzmonitor.Inthesecases,boththe60hzand120hzmonitorsufferfromit,butthe120hzsuffersless,asitistwiceasfastasrectifyingtheanomaly. Iexplaineditinmylastpostwiththis: Witha60hzmonitor,everyframewillhaveatear.Partoftheframewillshowinstantly,andpartofitwillwaituntilthenextrefresh.Itwilllikelymoveabit,upanddownthescreen,wherethatbreakis,astheyneversyncup.Perhapsthatisthepartyouareconfusedabout.Thereisnosyncingofframesandrefreshes,eveniftheFPSandhzmatch,unlessyouusev-syncorg-sync. Witha120hzmonitor,everyframewillhaveatear,withpartofitshowingupinstantly,andthe2ndhalfwaitingforthenextrefresh,butinsteadofwaiting16.7mstoshowthe2ndpart,itwaitsonly8.3ms.Thenanotherrefreshhappens,thatdoesnothappenwiththe60hzmonitor,whichwillshowbothpartsoftheimageatthesametime,withoutatear,followedbyanotherframewithatear.Theresultisthetearlastshalfaslong,andthetimeittakesthewholeimagetoshowuptakeshalfaslong.Mostpeopleclaimtonotseetearingasaresultofthespeed,butIdo,justnotaseasily. Clicktoexpand... Bothgetthisproblem,butisnotasbadona120hzmonitorasitisona60hzmonitor.G-syncisobviouslybetter,butthisthreadwasnotaboutG-sync.   0 S swifty_morgan Illustrious Feb10,2006 13,567 1 42,960 605 butdidyoueverreallynoticeituntilgsynccamealong?............ordoesthishaveanythingtodowithframepacingorframelatency...........can'trememberwhatitwasanymore.forawhilereviewerswereaddingintheperformancechartshowslowtheframeswerebeingrendered....blah,blah..............???gettingsenilehere.(graphicscards)   0 B bystander Champion Dec9,2009 15,145 2 57,965 1,014 swifty_morgan: butdidyoueverreallynoticeituntilgsynccamealong?............ordoesthishaveanythingtodowithframepacingorframelatency...........can'trememberwhatitwasanymore.forawhilereviewerswereaddingintheperformancechartshowslowtheframeswerebeingrendered....blah,blah..............???gettingsenilehere.(graphicscards) Ofcourse.Weallnoticeditinonewayoranother.Thatiswhyv-syncwascreated,togetridofthatgodforsakentear.Whenthetearingisrandomlyshowingup,weallnoticedhickups,butwejustneverdescribeditas"latency".Weweremoreconcernedwiththetearthanthelatencyaspectofit. The"latency"thinghebringsup,ismoreofamarketingthing,thoughisquitereal,becauseheknowsthattheprogameronlycaresabout"latency"andgettinganedge,sohecorrectlymentionedthatwhenatearoccurs,thepartofthescreenthatisshowinganolderimage,isshowingonerendered16.7msbefore(ona60hzmonitor)andgoingtoG-syncwilldeliveracompleteframewithnomorethan3msoflatency.Thisistomakesurethe"progamer"doesn'tfocusonthat3ms,andrecognizestheyareactuallylosing16.7msoflatencyonpartofthescreen.   Youmustloginorregistertoreplyhere. Share: Facebook Twitter Reddit Tumblr WhatsApp Email Link Threadstarter Similarthreads Forum Replies Date N QuestionTryingtoswitchfrom60hzto144hz Displays 6 Yesterdayat1:23AM Question240hzmonitoronlyshowingupto120hz Displays 15 Jan3,2022 G QuestionNeedhelp:Cantchangerefreshratefrom120hzto165hz Displays 16 Jan2,2022 F Question60FPSYoutubeLagging Displays 4 Nov13,2021 S QuestionIsthereapointinbuyingHDMI2.14KmonitorsforPS5whenmostgamesarecappedat60fpsanyway? Displays 5 Sep5,2021 QuestionPlaying60fpscappedgameatnative165hzrefreshratewithG-Sync,confusedwhyit'snoticeablymorechoppythanplayingat60hz? Displays 4 Jul8,2021 S QuestionIs60fpson120Hzsupposetolookworsethan60fpson60Hz,orismynewmonitorbusted? Displays 0 Jun10,2021 M [SOLVED]60fps/60hzvs60fps/144hz Displays 2 Mar30,2021 F [SOLVED]Can'tgetmorethan60fpsingames Displays 7 Mar10,2021 J [SOLVED]Whyismymonitorsuddenlyonlydisplaying60fps? Displays 1 Jan16,2021 Similarthreads Question Tryingtoswitchfrom60hzto144hz Question 240hzmonitoronlyshowingupto120hz Question Needhelp:Cantchangerefreshratefrom120hzto165hz Question 60FPSYoutubeLagging Question IsthereapointinbuyingHDMI2.14KmonitorsforPS5whenmostgamesarecappedat60fpsanyway? Question Playing60fpscappedgameatnative165hzrefreshratewithG-Sync,confusedwhyit'snoticeablymorechoppythanplayingat60hz? Question Is60fpson120Hzsupposetolookworsethan60fpson60Hz,orismynewmonitorbusted? [SOLVED] 60fps/60hzvs60fps/144hz [SOLVED] Can'tgetmorethan60fpsingames [SOLVED] Whyismymonitorsuddenlyonlydisplaying60fps? 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